SHOULD PUBLIC COLLEGES BE FREE ?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Saitama, Mar 17, 2016.

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Should colleges be free ?

  1. Yes make mexico pay for it

    6.7%
  2. Yes

    46.7%
  3. To a certain extent

    33.3%
  4. No

    13.3%
  1. Saitama

    Saitama Newbie

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    Do you look up to countries where public colleges are free? Do you think college tuitions discourage people from going to college ? Do you think that if we give out free college education, people won't appreciate it and be lazy ? Do you think people who have to take a part time job or get indebted take their studies more seriously ? Should public colleges just get cheaper instead of free ? A compromise ?
    Do you think it's not possible ? Is there no such word as free, since someone has to pay money for the equipment, etc for the field of study ? Would tax payers have to pay alot more ? Or should we just spend less on for example military and more on that and keep the taxes that way ? Or should colleges look for other ways to generate money ?
    Is education a right, everyone should have ? Will the society benefit from more college students ?
    Or are there already enough alternatives like stipendiums, etc ?
    Do you regret college because you're indebted now ?
    Would it bother you as a person from a better background, that people with a worse background have access to the same benefits like you ? Do you think it's better, when people with worse backgrounds get indebted and are too busy to think about politics or other kind of things because they will be busy with paying back their debts or spending their money on the next iphone or something else instead of trying to change the country ? Do you think your country or your life would be better this way ?
    This and many other things.


    Share your thoughts
    Discuss

     
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  2. mocochang

    mocochang Celebrity

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    Here in Brazil public colleges (both state and federal ones) are completely free, I get kinda shocked when I hear how much public colleges in other countries cost...
     
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  3. LegendaryTsunade

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    Education itself should be free.
     
  4. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    Those of you that think it is free are absolutely delusional. Just where do you think the money comes from?

    You'll definitely pay for it later.

    Here in the US, college tuition is becoming outrageous. But, what most don't realize is that it was nothing more than a scam, by the Uni administrators, the liberal edcucation lobby, and liberal lawmakers to transfer money into administrators' pockets on the back of student and student loans, with the illusion of a 'free' education. The money went straight from the govt., through the students, into the admins pockets. Education didn't grow or get any better....only tuition skyrocketed, and the number of admin jobs (not profs) quadrupled. I guess nobody thought about having to pay that back. You've heard of students with debilitating loans to pay back? You can thank the folks just mentioned for that.

    Having gone through uni without a loan, (through hard work and part time jobs) I really feel sorry for those that bought into the 'free' education scam through easy student loans. You were robbed. I got out before it got really bad. I have friends that were not so lucky.

    For those that want free education....I hope you get a successful job later so the govt. can take half your money to pay for the next guy. /sarcasm

    Here locally there are students that can barely read getting loans to go to college. That's a complete waste of money, and it is happening more each day.

    At one time, HS students and parents made hard decisions about going to uni. Can I pass the courses? Do I have what it takes? Is my degree going to give me good pay back for the sacrifice? Is it worth the sacrifice my parents or I will make? Welllllllll......not any more.....just go for free, or a free loan, ....waste someone elses money on a degree that will barely feed you, or starve paying back a loan. Really? C'mon...be smarter than that.

    Wake up folks. Nothing in life is free.
     
    #4 mkusa, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  5. g_yongchy

    g_yongchy Trainee

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    I don't think I'll ever get the point of paying for education to begin with.
     
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  6. aquamaraqua

    aquamaraqua Public Figure

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    If the US has money for WMDs I don't see why education can't be free.
     
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  7. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    @aquamaraqua I understand where you are coming from, I really do, but that's a fairly simplistic straw man emotional argument. But, OK, for the sake of argument let's just give up all the military expenditures and transfer those funds to free education. OK, lets do that.

    The US spends over $600 billion a year on the military. Let's just take it all. We don't need no stinking military.

    About 20 million students are enrolled in college each year in the US, give or take. College tuition, room, and board is now about $25,000 a year at a basic state college (and climbing). That's $500 billion a year for education expenses. Figure on at least doubling that number if college were absolutely free.....everyone would go that could, whether they really needed to be there or not. So that's $1 trillion a year. Hmm...we don't have enough money even if we completely get rid of the military. We'll fall a bit short. (I'm not making this up....you can find these numbers)

    I understand your sentiment, and your wanting a good thing. But substituting a cause you don't like for one you do is too simplistic an approach to the problem. Again, nothing is free.
     
    #7 mkusa, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  8. aquamaraqua

    aquamaraqua Public Figure

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    WMDs are a scratch of the surface. The amount of corruption in this political system that inflates these problems that shouldn't even be problems in the first place is laughable, but to be expected really.

    I'm not saying let's make every single college out there completely free for students, but there can be a lot more money put into the education system so students won't have to pay for loans or any crazy sky high amount of money for something that shouldn't really be that expensive in the first place.
     
  9. mocochang

    mocochang Celebrity

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    @mkusa I'm not sure about how it works on the US, so I can't comment about it, but where I'm from public college is free. And when I mean free, it's free. Not a loan given to the student to attend the university and that has to be paid back later. It's completely free for every single student that goes to that university. Sure, the money to keep the university comes from the government, and that money comes from the taxes payed by the population, but, hey, every country has taxes the population pay regularly.
    Does this mean everyone wants to enter a state or federal university? Sure. It's free and the education is good. Do they all manage to study there? Definitely not, because there are very hard entrance exams that have to be taken and limited openings, and the better the university, the bigger the competition and the harder to get into. You have to study A LOT to get into some universities here, some people have to take the exams multiple times (they happen mostly once a year) until they manage to get a big enough score to be able to enroll. Then, of course, there are the private universities. They also have entrance exams and everything, but generally the competition isn't as fierce since they're paid, so less people try them. Though I don't think they're nearly as expensive as some of US's private universities.
    I'm no saying the education system here is perfect, it's far from it in some areas, but the state and federal universities (which are public and completely free) work and are usually among the best ones in the country.
     
  10. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    @aquamaraqua I don't disagree with you. For those with the aptitude for college level courses, easier funding would be great. But, just like the student loan scam, that is where the corruption comes in.

    Something I've talked to some HS students about, since I got out, is to get smarter about where you spend your higher education dollars. Get all your core courses at local community colleges. Use this to drive down the tuition prices at the big schools. It is a supply/demand thing. Also with the college dropout rate at around 50%, it's better if you find out you can't cut it, on a community college budget first. Let's face it.....everyone is not cut out for college level courses.

    As long as easy money flows into the big schools, the price will continue to climb, more money into the pockets of admins....students will not reap the benefits.

    Here's a suggestion...go look up the rise in tuition/education cost over the last 20 years. Think about the massive increase in availability of student loans in that same time frame ('free' instant money for students). Then look at the expansion of administrative positions at both HS and colleges, versus the expansion of courses and teachers. You'll see the vast majority of the money is not going to student services. Fees rise, entrance requirements rise, but the number of students does not rise proportionately.

    I don't know all the answers, but just more free money is not it. It hasn't worked yet.
     
    #10 mkusa, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  11. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    @mocochang said "Definitely not, because there are very hard entrance exams that have to be taken and limited openings, and the better the university, the bigger the competition and the harder to get into."

    THAT is one of our key issues. Here in the US, we have big problems with HS grade inflation and people going to college that probably would not pass the entrance exams in your country. In my state, we have a state funded scholarship program, funded by the lottery (gambling). Any student with a B average goes to a state college for free. Problem is, the entrance requirements are a B average, OR a good score on SATs (entrance exams). Not AND, but OR. So, many HS teachers inflate student grades. Students that can barely read get into college, and then drop out after a year. Wasted money.

    Your country's plan is a good one, if it becomes difficult to get into college because of intelligence, and not because of finances.
     
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  12. aquamaraqua

    aquamaraqua Public Figure

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    What state do you live in? o_O
     
  13. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    Georgia (Atlanta)

    And I might add....GPA requirements for most state universities are now around 3.8 or better, because of the grade inflation. Still, there are HS students with 4.0 averages that can barely read.

    There have been some schools admins that have recently gone to jail over this.
     
  14. sicaranghae

    sicaranghae Rookie

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    This. If Brazil has enough money to fund that, I can't imagine how the US doesn't???? Like, how
     
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  15. aquamaraqua

    aquamaraqua Public Figure

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    In NY we don't have that. It's the first time I'm hearing of such a thing honestly... In north eastern states colleges look at both grades and SAT scores, I assumed that's how it was in every state. Odd.
     
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  16. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    That would be an interesting thing to go look at. I lived in a different state when I went to college, and it was only SAT scores then. I still think that's the best metric.
     
  17. sicaranghae

    sicaranghae Rookie

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    It's good but not ideal. The thing is, to get to college you need to go through school first. And in Brazil, virtually all public schools are shit. And I mean SHIT. I have a friend who studied in public schools all his life and had no idea fatorials where even a thing when he took the national entrance exam, cause he simply was never taught. That's how shitty it is.

    And for that reason, students from private schools end up having a much better shot at getting into public college than students who studied on public schools all their lives. So the people who really need it end up not getting into college, because they simply don't have the same opportunities. I could talk about that more in depth, but that would take far too long. The thing is that I imagine this plan would work a lot better in the US since most people come from public schools, so the gap wouldn't really be that big, I guess? But I don't know. Do you think a problem like that could arise if it was done in America?
     
  18. mkusa

    mkusa Public Figure

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    @sicaranghae I think most public schools in the US are pretty good. I went to one, and did OK. Private schools in the US are better, but not twice better.

    But I will say this....public schools in the US are getting worse, not better. Long story and lots of reasons.

    It sounds like, in your country, the education system would be better served by better funding of the public schools.
     
  19. sicaranghae

    sicaranghae Rookie

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    That's what I thought, that'd be pretty fair in America.

    It would, but something like that isn't very easy or fast to achieve. So now we have quotas so that we can even things out. Only time can tell how things are gonna go, but oh well.
     
  20. mocochang

    mocochang Celebrity

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    Yep, that's the problem with Brazil's education system. They keep trying to improve the universities, but they fail to realize that the core of the problem are actually the schools, not college. Here if you want your kinds to have a good education you have to pay for a private school (or try to get into a military school, which are schools funded by the military and are very good here on the city I'm from, but they're quite hard to get into because they'll only take good students to begin with), because, as sicaranghae mentioned, public schools have really poor education and the government does nothing about it...
     
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