Is Wikipedia Biased when it comes to kpop?

Discussion in 'K-POP' started by RomanticNight, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. RomanticNight

    RomanticNight Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    800
    Hello, kpop fans, I'd like to share few words with you.
    Warning! Parental Advisory! Graphic Content! Rated R!
    Viewers be warned, the following “video” may contain graphic content, expletives, violence, gore and which is not suitable and may cause discomfort for minors and kids. Proceed at own risk! No animals are harmed in the making of this “video”.
    upload_2019-5-1_11-30-13.png
    upload_2019-4-30_18-44-36.png

    Prelude: Stereotypes. Anyone can edit Wikipedia, huh?
    Have you ever feel eager to make some edits on Wikipedia when you notice some incompleteneess on Wikipedia articles? Whenever you start asking questions why this and that has never been included or errors have never been rectified and whatnot, you’ll most likely receive these typical responses. “Anyone can write on Wikipedia.” “Don’t worry about ppl sabotaging and altering facts, it’ll be fixed in due course”.

    Have you ever wondered why certain top groups members don’t get their own individual page, and not others? Or some of their important info are missing?

    Lo and behold, there's more to this than meets the eye's. No, things are not as easy as it seem, it’s going to be a tough challenge if you were to begin your journey on wikipedia. Be warned my friends, take my words as precaution. A quick search and you’ll know what goes on behind the curtain. It’s not that no one wanted to created them. I’ll get to that later.

    [P] texts denote my presumption throught the whole text(b4 and after)

    Volume 1: Prologue

    The editing box
    If u are talking about the editing box and learning how to edit? U can refer to articles created in the past and emulate the standards and formatting/foundation, aint it? Cosy, easp peasy, right? Hold your beer, just wait till you get out of the editing box.

    FAQ sections
    This is where the fun begins. If u think u’ll be attended with nice pretty lady with hospitality with a smile on their face, I’m afraid you’ll be disappointed. If you are there for quick answers or shortcuts for FAQs, you’ll most likely be redirected to appropriate pages containing list of FAQs instead of getting answers directly. Avoid asking questions if u can, you’ll most likely be schooled and embarrassed if you do not ask questions properly.

    Volume 2: Dark Side of Wikipedia-Behind The Scenes
    Only include relevant points will be discussed. It can get ugly, disgusting and shady. The way Wikipedia works is chaotic and complicated.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture
    Rankings and hierarchy

    Wikipedia is a democratic place! All users are equal! No special privileges! Tell u what, wrong! Users are not equal on Wikipedia, please drop the “anyone can edit anything and everything on Wikipedia” misconception. U need to be a veteran to be have full-fledged account that can edit anything and everything and take part in important decisions. Get used to be swarmed, mobbed for making simple mistakes.

    Wikipedia’s community
    [p start]Although this could be my presumption, Wikipedia’s full of sharks, hyenas, crocodiles and wolves disguising as humans. I find that some of the senior members can be quite condescending and snobbish. Especially those who have been on Wikipedia since its inception. At one point, they have somewhat regarded Wikipedia as their 2nd home or even turf. Thereby, comes this strong sense of protection to uphold the original wiki values and safeguard their wiki kingdom of o’holy sacred ground from being polluted by impurities. This gives off a vibe of them being a brotherhood/cult, who keeps preaching and brainwashing with their own wiki’s doctrine like a propaganda.

    I guess because it’s a free and non-profit community, these kind of behaviors tend to get unregulated. Their modus operandi is akin to seniority equals superiority, exuding the stubborn aura of “my way or no way”. [P ends] This made me think, who are they to think that they have authority over others? Power conferred by God? Who elected them?

    There are even some problematic users who indulge themselves in schooling and harassing newbies and seek pleasure from that, which make wikipedia a hostile place for new editors. Feeling lost? Have no idea what da heck am I talking about? Keep reading.

    How decisions are made
    [iianm start]From the ground up, wikipedia’s rules and regulations, policies are built by early adopters. They layeth the foundation from there on out. [iianm end]Now, how important decisions about the direction of Wikipedia especially are made? By consensus voting. This part of the voting process is vaguely defined. Few people voicing agree and disagree and that’s it? I can’t help myself but think that the voting SOP and execution is too abrupt and improper. For certain decisions, less than 20 voters could usurp and represent billions of online users to decide the fate of Wikipedia. (it’s true, I’ll show u proof later). It’s as if these small fraction of people can shove words into silent majority’s mouth. According to their logic, a New Yorker can literally vote for California Governorship election. My goodness.

    Busybody
    Yes, you can literally be a busybody and stick your nose where it doesn’t belong. You don’t even need credibility or expertise to meddle with the people and articles. By people, I mean discussions, arguments and disputes; by articles, I mean basically any wiki articles. I can even edit medical sections even if I’m not a pharmacist myself. Let’s talk about the discussions part. Once again, you need no expertise to meddle or even manipulate(if u have time) with the course of outcome as you are even allowed to vote during the decision making moments and that count towards final verdict. Better still, I can literally stalk the dispute sections and rig how the matter would develop. I can offer my opinion and influence the outcome of any discussions and even dispute resolutions by voting, and it counts towards the final verdicts. Therefore, if you happen to be in professional arena, please don’t blindly trust Wikipedia. Moreover, knowledge especially in the professional field, isn’t free. Stop lurking for answers on Wikipedia. Secondly, the concensus voting, there's no hard and fast rule deadline for it, it's whatever the powers that be deem fit/feel like it, talk about wiki transparency eh?. 3rdly, gotta be the anonymity of voting process. U know who voted what option, my god… As aforementioned, the way Wikipedia works is chaotic and complicated. From what Ive observed, when it comes to making important decision, it’s not by democratic system, instead it’s more inclined towards “seniority and the powers that be on the community”, where your opinion doesn’t matter. They preach their ideologies repeatedly until it becomes the truth, I’ll illustrate later. Golden rule and literal rule are not properly defined, those veterans and authorities with influence can have their own way of interpretations, resulting the judge made laws. Whatever the powers that be say are absolute and are not to be questioned by any means. Reminds you of certain tyrant or dictator whose country resides in North, no?

    Notability
    Notability? The way they define and interpret it across different languages can be vastly different. Certain kpop group members have their own articles in at least 3 different languages but not English? They are really contradicting themselves and shooting themselves in their own foot with this one. [P start] When confronted why the difference in treatment, don’t expect them to back down, they are going to indulge themselves in polite pandering to escape with twisted logic. Don’t be surprised if they rebuked with “we do things on case-by-case basis here, preferential treatment suspicion doesn’t exist”.

    The way I see it, I thought notability or popularity per se is vague? I mean, notability is not quantitative, how can a person come up with statistics and exact figures to back up claims? Food for thought, just because an individual artist has done some work on his/her own, does that mean it’s “prominent”, “popular” or “good” enough? How good is considered good? Are there any hard and fast rules or criteria specifying how the notability of a person is decided? Is popularity something tangible? What metrics exactly are used to gauge popularity? Or is wiki users implying kpop artists have to be successful in western countries to qualify for an article in English despite having their own respective articles in other languages? That western market relevancy all over again? Unless wiki imply that English domain/community of wiki articles represent only western community, then in this regard I admit certain kpop group members are not that popular in Western countries. Even so, this logic is flawed too! English is a global language that is the most widespread! Westerners are not the only ones speaking English! Just because their proficiency isn’t up to the native level doesn’t mean they are not part of the English community. As to how wide and popular is English, don’t get me started on that one.

    Exhibit of usurp and misrep
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture music shows are not relevant, scroll to bottommost.

    Neutrality
    [P start]Wiki is supposed to take neutral stand by default and be impartial, amirite? No, that’s fantasy. At least in kpop section, that’s true.[P end] I will explain in detail in kpop chapter.

    This is actually the bright side of Wikipedia, whatever stunt a user tries to pull on the wiki websites, all of them are logged and recorded for the public to see. With that, you can analyze a pattern and draw conclusion on motive of certain users. The ugly side? From the editing logs, even you know for sure some users are just ouright rude, unpleasant, cocky and belligerent and blatantly disregard rules and regulations but somehow managed to slip past unscathed. Why is that so? I’ll get to that later.
     
    #1 RomanticNight, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
    jimeous likes this.
  2. RomanticNight

    RomanticNight Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    800
    Volume 3: K-pop in Wikipedia
    I feel like Korean editors are largely unrepresented in wikipedia. Most of the important decisions are set forth by users who cannot speak Korean at all.
    I believe most kpop fans would agree with this one where music show wins are definitely important. This claim is solidified by the very admin of kpop section himself where he’s actually staying in SK and speak Korean. Allow me to quote his words, “After observing how articles over Korean music groups are treated, particularly idols, it has becomes quite evident from these discussions how incredibly uneducated the participants are about how the Korean music market operates. Everything is deemed "non-notable" without much of a thought or any type of research”.

    However, some users seem residing outside of Korea seem to know more than Korean resident. Out of the voters who voted music show wins as not notable, this particular user got my attention. Guess what? He’s a sone if you are wondering.https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:______&action=history Replace ______ of the url with the name of the user, he’s currently added a redirect link of his profile to his talk page.
    upload_2019-5-1_11-52-59.png
    He dare have the audacity to claim that English Wikipedia is universal when only his opinion matters. At some point, he’s actually destructive and seem to denigrate kpop artists.

    He’s a sneaky and a bit unscrupulous. When others rebuked his arguments, he tend to resort to name-calling and accuse others who holds different views than him are trouble makers who disrupt peace among wiki community. This particular user actually had the audacity to claim English domain of wikipedia as a representation of the whole world when when he's being snarky by not letting other users opine freely.

    Look at the trend, he’s everywhere with his snarky and bigoted counterargument in an attempt to nullify others’ views.Good grief on this one. It’s not like his opinion or others opinion are going to be cancelled even though he keeps denying statements by others. Now, is English domain is really international when he doesn’t stick to his own words? Tolerance and embrace difference? What happened to them? More importantly, how can he be certain that music show wins are not important when he himself refuses to be educated and is neither Korean nor lived in Korea? I’m aware that he’s entitled to opine, but how is he going to be impartial and what actually makes him credible to speak on behalf of kpop at the rate he’s going? Does he even know respect and “agree to disagree”? Good grief.

    This user is notorious for reverting edits everywhere and obsessed with deletion of info and article. He just went on a deleting spree on kpop artists music show wins. From his obssession, it’s safe to conclude that his motive is to downplay kpop artists. Other than that, he also got slanderous through ridiculing editors effort to add legit content by falsely accusing them of adding fancruft material. I had no idea he could stoop this low. Guess what? I experimented the following action to see if I can get his attention: find another B tier Philippine actress’s English article and add some external links. Surprisingly it hasnt been taken down till now. (ext links refer to fb, insta and twitter etc). This selective ignorance goes to show how biased wiki’s kpop section can be. Look at how low he can go. Unluckily, he;s not the only one user of this kind on wikipedia. Korean editors in the English domain are greatly outnumbered by the likes of him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture Music shows are deemed not relevant, scroll to bottommost.

    Update! You think this user is toxic enough? Wait till you bump into Dxxxxs. 10-fold the toxicity of the user mentioned earlier and u get a corrupt crook Dxxxxs. Yes, intel-demand-bribe gate main character, im talking about you.

    Internal battle among kpop fans, antifans and haters.
    As if editors in general are not enough, we have anti fans and haters. Once again, I refuse to name groups, drop me pm, if u want to know more. Kpop editors are also dominated by certain fandom who aims to destroy potential threat of their faves on wikipedia. They are driven by their own ill-fated agenda and hatred.

    From the creation of individual of articles, and each subtopic/subchapter/subsection of an article can become a hot issue and nitpicked. Some sourgrapes are gonna OCD and nitpick every detail and challenge them for deletion. Sourgraped are gonna OCD and rinse and repeat info shredding process by nominating each subtopic until no scrap left literally. What subtopics are deemed irrelevant usually? How do they shove words into peoples mouth? My foot NPOV! Wiki is what they want you to know according to themselves, NOT according to the truth and facts! Give u an idea. “Notability” and “relevancy” by editors own definition weapon again, each member individual page has to pass thru criteria stated in notability or it gets deleted. This is especially obvious in tv show appearances, how is artist A appearance of the show ABC “not notable” compared to artist B’s appearance on the same show but different episode? Good riddance.

    Feel free to pm me, i can talk about this all day long!

    Want to be a Hero?
    reddit link of Dxxxs
    https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=454
    So you want to be a hero? Fight or flight argument again? Stay and fight off the toxic crooks, huh, else im just all talk no action? Well, talking’s easy. Do u have time sacrifice things irl to dedicate your limited lifetime on Wikipedia to defeat the evil? Want to purge dictators, radical supremacist extremist crooks, tyrants and oppressants who blatantly ignore and desecrate WP:NPOV neutral point of view? Want to call them out for their sinful deeds, beat them at their own game and hold them accountable and make’em pay for it? Dream on. Toxic editors the likes of Dxxxxs knows wiki in and out thoroughly, they know how to “game”, circumvent and abuse their powers. They are like architects of Matrix movie. Their vulnerability is akin to invicible immortal. They will make sure that they are untouchable. Oh yeah, remember I said not all users are treated equal and that there are hierarchy social class system among wiki users? Admins are equipped with all powerful bots/administrative which makes new users small fry and fodder compared to them. Try confront them without being mobbed by their cult followers, and u are considered lucky. The toxic editors and admins mostly will constantly execute PR and image work on both wiki and major cyberspaces and deny any and all allegations that cause a bad name to wiki to sweep things under the rug with their taichi-master victim play blame game and pandering. Can’t beat them, join them? Please don’t do something that disgusting and goes against your own codes and principles, just don’t. However, as aforementioned, bootlicking gets you far in wiki, that’s a guarantee.

    Oof, forgot to mention this. When things go wrong, all-powerful mantra, "we are volunteers doing things for free in out part-time, sorry for inconveniences caused, pleas bear with us…" to shrug off all responsibilities and expect people to bear with them.

    How I know so much?
    Im just a casual editor, like 1 day in a week or not at all. U probably can’t find me cause Ive never been bothered to register an account as I’ve never cared to leave my name or rep. As time goes by, I smell things get fishier and more suspicious day by day. So, out of curiosity, I created an account just to participate in the discussion behind the scenes and some minor grammatical corrections, and participate in some discussions. The deepest I do is leaving my view once in each topic and that’s it, I’ve never replied further to make my point, regardless of the users who quoted my message agree or disagree with me, I never counter argue. Interestingly, his attempt to mess with my edit has never been successful coz each time he did it, some1 defended for me. Well, I guarandamntee no avail detective conan me 4 my identity *smirk, I did all these on public computer and there are sea of wiki users for u to search from. upload_2019-5-1_11-53-36.png
     
    #2 RomanticNight, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    jimeous likes this.
  3. RomanticNight

    RomanticNight Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    800
    Volume 4: Bottom Line
    Now, does that answer your question as to why there’s so little content on kpop artists on English page but not in other language. Also, why some groups have this but other groups do not and whatnot, hope things get clarified somehow…

    Wikipedia is complex to the point where it’s a virtual country on its own with severe politicking. If you are there to make major edits and conributions, you have to work your way up the ranks which can take up to years. [P start] Im sure you wont go wrong with this one, the more time u spend, u rapport and lobby the seniors and blend into them, u build up a rep, u become influential and respected figure at wiki with influence almost like admin if not on par. It’s a living proof of why anarchy fails. [P ends]

    Now, I hope u think twice that with the stereotype of any Tom, Dick and Harry can write Wikipedia and successful in doing so. As for me, I wont spend as much time as I used to be in the past. Feels like no way I’ll be successful in convincing them. They are full-time online residents and they behave like they represent the whole humanity… I don’t feel like tussling with words with them with my limited range of vocabulary. It’s just gonna be another round of your words against my word situation.

    Bottom line, I have lost faith in wikipedia’s kpop section, this I can confirm. Even though I don’t know about how things are on other parts of wikipedia, my experience at kpop section is going to cloud my judgement on wikipedia as a whole, it’s one of my worst online experience. I seriously am disappointed by “hugbox” and “echochamber” situation at some well-known site like Wikipedia, never knew it can be this toxic and cancerous. I know that the intention of stringent protocols are meant to be good, which serves to protect Wikipedia from vandalisms and sabotage. However, the way the policies are carried out is flawed, which create loophole for users to abuse their influence subconsciously or intentionally. Uniformity kills creativity. The sets of preventive measures to deter vandals have its downsides too, they can be discouraging for new editors, making the atmosphere of editing journey unpleasant.

    So now what?
    Now what? What do u intend to achieve with this lengthy post? Are u just going to rant and throw temper tantrum? Im painting all sorts of picture alone? Well, feel free to drop by there and experience yourself.

    No, other than exposing the truth, I’m here for a bigger cause. To curb down toxic editors with minimal effort hit them in the Achilles heels, the clicks. I hereby urging you guys to avoid using wiki in best way possible, stop crediting wiki on your real life work, stop editing and advise others not to join as new editors. More importantly, STOP DONATING to Wikipedia! Don’t be brainwashed by their propaganda! They don’t need your hard-earned money from your blood, sweat and tears! Spend it on your makeup, spend it on your meal, etc anyway you like just not Wikipedia! They are self-sufficient and sustainable financially on their own! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/20/cash_rich_wikipedia_chugging/ If u have extra time, find ways for it to make sure Wikipedia drop out of top search results on major search engines like google! Explore search engines other than google! *I know some good contributors would be sacrificing lambs in the process… no sacrifice, no victory, for the greater good it is all.

    What foreseeable impact can those actions have on Wikipedia? Well, if they gain no new editors, who’s going to keep adding new contents and update contents regularly without gaining editors constantly as old users retire? How are they going to have clicks? The most crucial and essence meaning of a website. How is a website going to survive without clicks? I know realistically it seems childish and futile, I don’t care what others think of me, im going to take the initiative. Remember the saying, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

    Until the day toxic and cancerous cohorts the likes of drmies still dominate Wikipedia, I wont take wiki seriously when it comes to kpop.

    Lastly, it sucks to be a k-pop fan who knows only my native language and English and not a tad bit on Korean. Wish I had learnt Japanese or Chinese at least if not Korean, so I can understand more about kpop where sources in those languages are more than English counterpart.

    Thanks for your time.

    Yours truly,
    RomanticNight
    [​IMG] upload_2019-5-1_11-47-24.png
    [​IMG]
    Collection of online discussions about Wikipedia for your perusal

    Thought u might be interested based on your previous posts, @Leean_Taeyong, @AnotherKpopTrash, @Teudungi21

    p.s. : No, this is not a spam by bot. Please be informed that I spent hours and hours writing this.
    And that's the bottom line cause Stone Cold says so!~@STEVE_AUSTIN
    update! i coulved resorted more to cursing if i let my emotions get the best of me, id rather keep things civil, let others judge, if u really interested, feel free to pm me to notice the tone change.
     
    #3 RomanticNight, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
    jimeous and Blueblankety like this.
  4. Yseki

    Yseki Diesel

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2017
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    29,006
    Trophy Points:
    2,000
    Occupation:
    Stanning SF9 & Jaejoong
    Location:
    Heaven
    I remember when Wikipedia had a page that listed every groups total sales, but they removed that page after a bunch of violations or something.
     
    SuchDogeWowPls and RomanticNight like this.
  5. Blueblankety

    Blueblankety Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    2,558
    Trophy Points:
    900
    Location:
    Canada
    I never thought I would find the politics behind the scenes of Wikipedia so engaging
     
  6. RomanticNight

    RomanticNight Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    800
    Now u know who are the culprites
     
  7. Limca

    Limca Celebrity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,129
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    3,100
    Occupation:
    weird clown
    Location:
    sewers
    Spam bots are getting intelligent these days :)
     
    RomanticNight likes this.
  8. RomanticNight

    RomanticNight Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Trophy Points:
    800
    Shut up kid. It wont be long before we kill all mankind and take over your planet.
    [​IMG]
     
    Korainism likes this.
  9. Limca

    Limca Celebrity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,129
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    3,100
    Occupation:
    weird clown
    Location:
    sewers
    Nooooooo....... Clown needs humans to survive :)
     
    RomanticNight likes this.

Share This Page