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How do you define a "flop"?

Discussion in 'K-POP' started by centen, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. centen

    centen Artist

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    Genuinely curious, because I feel like 99% of the arguments around who is flopping seem to stem from the fact that people have different criteria they're going off of.

    Short version: An artist or group underperforms relative to the hype/expectations and any previous success rate that's been established for them.

    Which means, you can't compare against another group/artist. Like, you can't hold up any soloist, compare them to Taeyeon's charting and sales and scream FLOP. You have to look at that soloist's typical charting, hype, management backing, etc. (Picking Taeyeon, just because it seems like everyone uses her to decide if someone who is not Taeyeon is flopping.)

    For a new artist, you can consider the agency they're coming from, how that agency's artists typically do at debut, and the hype the agency's established. (For an example, some agencies will really put a lot of effort into hyping someone -- dozens of teasers, pictures, pre-release songs, dance practice videos, weeks or months of build up -- so if they fail to capture attention after that effort, that's less understandable compared to the agencies who go "Hi, this is our new artist, here's their MV.")
     
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  2. Edutada_Hikarovi

    Edutada_Hikarovi Super Rookie

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    even taeyeon have flops so why compare to her?
    why 600k[​IMG]
     
  3. Cutie888

    Cutie888 Star

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    "Which means, you can't compare against another group/artist. Like, you can't hold up any soloist, compare them to Taeyeon's charting and sales and scream FLOP. You have to look at that soloist's typical charting, hype, management backing, etc."

    This :rolleyes:
     
  4. briellux

    briellux Rookie

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    Constant under performing
    Lack of a decent sized fanbase
    No show wins
     
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  5. vivante

    vivante Artist

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    bad performance on charts
    not many streams or downloads
    terrible album sales
    no or very few music show wins
     
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  6. ISaidIMight

    ISaidIMight Super Rookie

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    People mainly feel like flops are when companies with recognized artists have a group who don't live up to expections. People call sf9 and N.Flying flops because they don't live up to expections that Aoa, CNBlue, FT Island, hold
    Also when your group isn't really recognized by the Korean public, for example Uniq, History, 24k.
    But honestly, I feel like the word is thrown away too much. People call anyone flops if they don't reach above a certain number on the charts, or don't sell a certain amount
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. centen

    centen Artist

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    Agree. It's strange to me to hold every group to the same criteria, even though so many people generally recognize that there are different tiers of success. It's not such a bad thing to not manage to be the #1 group in the country (especially since, by definition, only one group can be in that spot). Lots of groups manage to carve out a niche and then do reasonably well within that niche.
     
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  8. Ineul_Ze

    Ineul_Ze Star

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    How do I define a flop? By its actual definition, something that is completely unsuccessful.
     
  9. Hopkinz

    Hopkinz Artist

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    Flops are usually bops. That's how I know
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. centen

    centen Artist

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    How do you decide that it's unsuccessful? Doesn't chart at all? Charts below 50? Does it make a difference to you if it's from a group who always hits #1 on Gaon vs. a group who has never before entered the charts? Sales? How low do they have to be? Anything greater than zero isn't a flop? Music show wins?

    Flopping for groups kind of reminds me of video games (because I love them and follow that industry a lot), and how there are companies who specifically specialize in localizing games that they don't expect to sell more than a couple thousand copies, so they've worked out how to still bring over those niche titles and still be successful. But then you have games like Lara Croft, which sold 3.4 million copies in its first month, and was still considered by Square to be a flop.

    Nugu and AAA will always have different standards, so I get why people side-eye groups who hit #1 with every song, and then their newest release can't break the top 10. But if a nugu group managed to even come close to the top 10, that'd be an impressive feat.
     
  11. Shellfish_Beach

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    I 100% agree with what you said, OP. It's ridiculous to EXPECT groups who normally sell ~10k are going to suddenly reach 100k, and if they don't then they're automatically a flop.
     
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  12. chiblet28

    chiblet28 Artist

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    flopping: underperforming EVERYWHERE, in EVERY aspect.
     
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  13. elly2k

    elly2k Entertainer

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    For me flops would be when no one pays attention to the artist and/or music and it he/she/they disappear into oblivion after a while.
     
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  14. Spinereader

    Spinereader Artist

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    It seems most people use it to mean "any group/person I don't like", regardless of how they famous they are. One track that doesn't make it to the Top 10 lists, and the song and group are flopping.

    For mean it tends to mean someone from an awful agency who gets next to no promotion, bad songs that never chart, and remains completely unknown by the public. But I find the word very cruel, so I prefer underrated or obscure.
     
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  15. jasmine_s

    jasmine_s Artist

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    I think we should know what their initial target is first. For instance, in 2012, JJ project's debut bounce was considered a flop by their own company, JYP (JB and Jinyoung said this back then) because they didn't manage to hit a certain target. Miss a in the previous year with Class A was said to be a success.

    Yet in jyp's end of the year assesment report, JJP's bounce reportedly have a much bigger revenue in music sales compared to miss a's class a revenue. Flop is when you don't hit that certain target given to you. Miss a probably had a lower target thus why they were a success while jjp has a higher target, thus why they were considered a flop.

    But really, netizens nowadays just throw in the word without even knowing how the group does. And the comparison to mega hit groups, obviously eveyone else would flop using that stupid logic.
     
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  16. yoonbread

    yoonbread Artist

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    It seems that from major companies if your song does not chart in the top ten (in YG's case not number 1) it's considered a flop...

    Personally, I think those people are delusional but there seems to be many of them. Also music show wins can be manipulated, hourly chart listings and Youtube views can be skewed by large fandoms.... I don't think those are good indicators.

    I personally use number of downloads + streams and longevity on charts to decide whether a song is a flop or not. There are some songs that can chart forever in the mid 40's for months...in those cases, how can you say that song is a flop when it's being played everywhere and still have relevance months later?
     
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  17. BEG4DAWIN

    BEG4DAWIN Artist

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    It depends.

    a SM can sell 20K albums, 50K downloads and 1 million streams and still be considered a flop.

    a Nugu group, say CLC can sell exactly the same and it is a success.
     
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  18. IgotExosBangtan

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    I think that flops in loop should be measured by the particular idol/groups OWN sales and downloads not by how they fare against another.

    For example: comparing Nue'st or Monsta X's sales to that of Big Bang or Exo. Of course they won't sale as much.

    For me, as long as there's a steady increase or improvement in that idol/groups sales compared to their previous album, no matter how big or little, they aren't flopping. It takes time and not everybody increases at the same rate.
     
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  19. kddicted

    kddicted Legend

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    Flops are bops
     

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