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Green new deal USA

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Wildwest85, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:21 AM.

  1. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...casio-cortez-s-green-new-deal-is-unaffordable

    Highlights of GND:

    1. “a job with family-sustaining wages, family and medical leave, vacations, and retirement security”
    2. “high-quality education, including higher education and trade schools”
    3. “high-quality health care”
    4. “safe, affordable, adequate housing”
    5. “economic security to all who are unable or unwilling to work”

    more aim fors cut and paste from Wikipedia.

    Green New Deal Resolution
    [​IMG]
    Ed Markey speaks on a Green New Deal in front of the Capitol Building in February 2019Ocasio-Cortez's first piece of sponsored legislation: H.Res.109 – 116th Congress (2019–2020) Recognizing the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal
    [​IMG] Wikisource has original text related to this article:
    Green New Deal
    Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Senator Ed Markey released a fourteen-page resolution[40] for their Green New Deal on February 7, 2019. According to The Washington Post (February 11, 2019), the resolution calls for a “10-year national mobilization” whose primary goals would be:[41]

    -"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."

    - "Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature."

    -"Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States."

    -"Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources."

    -"Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible."

    -"Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity."

    -"Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification."

    - "Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail."

    -"Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible."

    - "Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible."


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    Apparently a multi- trillion US dollars attempt ,to me a nearest Utopia template in the history of USA, would be more than thrilled if I could become a beneficiary of this package.

    Despite the fact that the whole idea is still far from financially realistic, I believe other than being political pursues by some people in congress, this is a shout out from generations around Millennium who think they have been suffered from impacts of even larger wealth gaps, non- stop rising living costs, school loans, confidence and pride crisis off vague / unwanted career prospective.

    Put it down to check level, would US citizen like to pay around 70% tax to make most GND happen?

    If US citizens dont want to give away almost entire pay checks to government for the Utopian welfare, how would you view Green New Deals pros and cons ? what do you suggest to realize GND going over the listed goals at any angle, like where and how to get funds / trim around targets...etc

    Invitations for some sharp commentators to the bar.

    @takit
    @4NIA2
    @Endymion_9
    @Blacknwhite
    @Flummoxedaf
    @RainingStarlight
    @milkshakes
    @raymondchouku
    @Lulu_Key

    Opinions from inside / outside the US are welcomed.

    Drinks on the house~
     
    #1 Wildwest85, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:21 AM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 12:24 PM
  2. RainingStarlight

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    14 pages? I'll read it eventually I'm curious to see the details, or if they stated the cost it would take. but seriously the GND is a ridiculous utopia.
     
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  3. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    I will be glad to see GND put in practice in the ways majority would agree with, people who bring this up better talk about money at the same time.

    I think for politicians they will get voters support if 2 out of 15 goals are reached.
     
  4. Endymion_9

    Endymion_9 Celebrity

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    Unicorn Poop for fucking IDIOTS dumb enough to believe its possible.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Flummoxedaf

    Flummoxedaf Trainee

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    oh I’ve been hearing about this for awhile. It’s AOCs new green deal that was criticized the hell out of, Is this the one Pelosi was critical of? Or is this a revised deal?

    To be honest I didn’t keep up or read about it when it came out, just bec her idea is really idealistic and would never be approved by Congress.

    Will read more about it and come back
     
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  6. takit

    takit Trendsetter

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    I have not read it.. only know of it by what I hear on the tele. Not a huge fan of AOC, so I do not know if I will read the proposal.So I cannot participate in this with any eloquence of thought.
     
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  7. 5HINee321

    5HINee321 Newbie

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    I'm honestly not a huge fan of the Green New Deal even though I am currently an environmental studies major. I feel like economically speaking the GND is not achievable and super expensive, which has been already been proven. Instead of wasting our time and resources on a plan that is far beyond our reach, the US should come up with a more realistic environmental proposal. Personally, I'm a big fan of a carbon tax because it is within our reach, has a high probability of being effective, and has bipartisan and some major business support so it could be passed.
     
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  8. 4NIA2

    4NIA2 Super Rookie

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    On the surface the Green New Deal asks the Federal Government to be used in ways it was not intended. In the US most of the Green New Deal is legitimately in the purview of State Governments. That is what is wrong mostly, it's a Federal Government power grab away from the States.

    Many goals of the GND is already being met. Affordable "College for All" is being met by Community Colleges. Community College financed by local School Districts. Community College transcripts can be transferred toward University credits. The later is not as affordable, but the financial burden reduced by starting as a Junior at the University after Community College.


    The Jobs for All by thee federal Government sounds like the NRA and CCC camps FDR created with the "New Deal". Determined to be unconstitutional and eliminated. I suspect the New Green Deal will create similar programs. The problem is Government is a subsidized entity and pitting it in competition with Private Businesses is a no no.
    GND could hire everyone as bureaucrats and can only imagine how wonderful that would be. Government promising jobs is an oxymoron. Let the Private sector handle employment. It does it perfectly.


    Wow something the Feds can help with the Power Grid infrastructure. All is good but renewable clean energy won't supply all the energy requirements. The US Natural Gas resources is put to use on power plants with Water and CO2 emissions. Too Bad CO2 is so controversial. Nuclear Power Plants with no emissions would go over like a lead balloon with environmentalists in the US.

    There already is Residence energy programs operated by Energy Utilities. Federal grants given to Utilities to finance the program. Can see expanding these programs. On a practical sense don't want money being spent reconstructing buildings.

    Some of the GND ideas of tearing things down and building them back is a colossal waste of money. Reminds me of a Contractor's philosophy "the guy before did it wrong, everything must be redone" BS. I bet this was where Government employment for all was to be used.

    Seen how Government fails at true recycling. They expertly charge disposal fees and skim monies to use elsewhere. Private industry could make a fortune and surprised it hasn't happened already.


    Lastly the Cow Farts. AOC should take a ride in the Countryside. Ranchers already leagues ahead of her idea of what is going on. Methane gases from compost piles run Generators to supply energy to the Farm.

    Family leave is practical idea. Have to allow time for things Society values most.

    Affordable Housing is a real problem in this area. Speculators have increased Rent and Housing prices to levels working couples can't afford. Local Government can help by allocating affordable housing in new construction. For example a new Condo complex permit with conditions of including some affordable units.

    FDR - The New Deal
    LBJ - Great Society
    AOC - The New Green Deal.

    Good things came of the previous two. Not in entirety as the Feds can easily overstep their authority. AOC's GND is mostly made of these Federal Government oversteps. Good Ideas but its the State's authority not the Feds.
     
    #8 4NIA2, Apr 16, 2019 at 3:24 PM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 3:39 PM
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  9. MOEBIUS

    MOEBIUS Public Figure

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    So many promises.
     
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  10. raymondchouku

    raymondchouku Married to: @ReadMyFanfic2
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    All of these things tend to cost Americans of their hard earned money. No doubt Pollution and the like are huge issues, but switching energy sources for how various things are powered always ends up costing people who can barely afford sh*t more out of their pocket. Plus that thing about providing a sustaining wage that includes medical insurance, leave, and paid vacation... are they serious. While it should be noted that these are things that all should have, these are things that will, most likely, never occur and to promise such is just ridiculous. If this is a hundred year promise, I would be hesitant to believe it then; its almost like a list for Christmas; I want Santa to bring me a Maserati that is powered by unicorn dust. These are great things. Sustainable Living; Cheaper Rent; Less Polution; Safer Neighborhoods.. But they amount to not much more than a wish list.. I'm skeptical. I will look over it more closely later, when I have more time, and make the necessary edits to this post, but dayummmmmm... It seems like some Bullsh*t.

    edit # 1: Just an aside, this seems like some more big government bull.
     
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  11. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    https://www.news.gatech.edu/expert/post/exit-paris-accord-enter-carbon-tax

    Indeed, it is likely that staying in the Paris Accord would have created jobs and grown the economy because of the opportunities offered by the clean technologies. The Paris Accord would have become a policy backbone for our tech industry to innovate and create new climate-friendly products like renewables, electric vehicles and energy efficiency that could be exported to the rest of the world.


    What do you make of the above quote from the link? why Trump rather backed out?

    If carbon tax raise can force drop carbon emissions right off does that mean new green technologies and climate friendly products are already in the US, that business owners would not apply unless "necessary"?
     
    #11 Wildwest85, Apr 17, 2019 at 7:21 AM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 7:56 AM
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  12. Blacknwhite

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    I'm a very conservative person but I am open to AOC's green new deal. I think what people don't understand is that the green new deal is a resolution not a bill. Meaning if it gets passed theres nothing that would give deadlines for this to be implemented, rather its just something you work towards. There's a lot of things I don't agree with in there like a 70% marginal tax rate on incomes of 10M or more, or the ban of airplanes and all the other ridiculous stuff she put in there. It can be revised overtime. As for the "unwilling to work part", it got tons of backlash in the press but its essentially wanting to provide UBI. I don't think that's a bad idea, Alaska actually does that with their oil profits.
     
    #12 Blacknwhite, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:01 AM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 8:15 AM
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  13. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    Why do you think GND advocators wanted state governments to steal power from Fed. gov. while previous example of FDRs new deal ruled out for unconstitutional and I get they are aware of this?

    Can understand GND are somewhat progressive Dems socialism dream acts- revolution every now and then, young people might think it cool as they are being deprived of advantages now than before, blame it all to capitalism and fat cats~
     
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  14. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    It is a pair of resolution and I believe sponsors knew GND would fail to advance in congress that makes it more a shout out to gain media and personal exposures than get something done, if thats the case it ended up wasting parliaments time when citizens were serious about what was brought up. so why bother? they are professional politicians you know..

    Anyways I would try to see it from the good sides, perhaps thats what GND sponsors what to achieve ..kick start a ripple. not bad for some brain storms tho.
     
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  15. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    You are such a fine young man ..I am afraid skeptical is what they want people to fall into and start doing the math how all that can come true~ but yeah why not? its a fine picture they have drawn and revolution hardly succeeds with only one trial.. perhaps some people who had enough with life would dig in~
     
    #15 Wildwest85, Apr 17, 2019 at 9:01 AM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 10:03 AM
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  16. Blacknwhite

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    Its not like it was wasted time, the GND might have been struck down unanimously but like you said it did influence tons of politicians to start considering some of her ideas. For the first time in forever there are actually republicans who care about the environment and people like AOC helped pushed that into a non-partisan issue.
     
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  17. Wildwest85

    Wildwest85 Trendsetter

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    I agree theres more cow farmers and oil folks in GOP who are deemed accountable for excessive carbon emissions aint fair to say most of them straight up environmentally indifferent.

    Anyways the big picture AOC and her wings have drawn is wonderful, and they still urged to dive in rich people's wallet as what Dems always do to fund GND. I am afraid they need to do better than that on money part.
     
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  18. takit

    takit Trendsetter

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    Thanks for my friend for expressing your opinion on the GND, though it may be a tad bit bias I can still hear you.
     
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  19. 4NIA2

    4NIA2 Super Rookie

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    Like good ideas from any Political Party along while opposing Progressive forms of Government.
    How I feel about the GND? GND is full of costly ridiculous ideas. I was being nice only sighting the abuse of Federal power if it were allowed to proceed.

    It is GND stealing power from the States and centralizing it Federally. Federal Government has few Powers that are spelled out in the Constitution. Unwritten powers are State's and individual Rights. Infrastructure improvements(Smart Power Grid) is only legitimate job of the Federal Government the rest is State powers.
    Some States have formed Progressive Governments this can't be confused with the Federal Government that is a Constitutional form of Government. The GNDers are trying to make the Federal Government do things it is not supposed to be involved in. But States legitimately can go Hog Wild with GND ideas.
     
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  20. takit

    takit Trendsetter

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