And having lots of fans and people notice you and like you doesn't equate to huge album sales. Doesn't Taeyeon have like 600k members in her fanclub? And how many copies did SNSD's last album sell? And DBSK has a huge fanclub, but they don't sell anywhere near the same number of albums as they have fans.
Agree with this, its the same as what I said about youtube views, just because you have a 1-2 million views doesn't equal to big album sales. The DBSK fanclub supposedly has 800k worth of fans but only 500k of their last album was sold, not bad by any means, its actually pretty close, but those are rare cases. 2ne1 supposedly had a lot of digital downloads, but most of it was illegal downloads,while their album, probably more people has it for free than actually bought. SNSD also has hundreds of thousands of fans, but their albums have yet to cross the 200k mark, I think their last mini sold around 150-170k. The Wonder Girls, who helped relaunch girl groups, even their highest selling album haven't even reach a 100k.These days if you even sale around 20k-50k is considered a success.
^
99% of idols won't exactly be considered very curvy by Western world standards. Of course, not ALL famous stars are super curvy, though. I can't even think of one who I really see as really curvy.
Most kpop idols are underweight, though, and this is something that a lot of people are against now, due to the message it sends out. There are plenty of American stars who are by no means fat that would be considered thicker in Asia.
Like I mentioned earlier, though, I think the harshness of the media and criticism here is something they wouldn't be able to handle. I know that there are plenty of parodies in kpop, but they aren't really mean parodies. Some of these people get really mean when they make fun of artists. Kpop idols can't handle criticism. This is truth. All of them get depressed over small comments and they've always got someone sticking up for them whenever something goes wrong. They don't ever have to really handle it. As for music, I rarely ever hear actual criticism towards music in Korea. I don't know why, but every album is always seen as 'a refreshing concept' or a sign of maturity or whatever.
i definitely agree with the last paragraph. That's why i was worried when i heard BoA was gonna debut in the US because if she got famous, they would be mean to her somehow. Even Beyonce, who is known to be nice nice nice, still gets parodied but of course not that often. I think that there is a fear to criticize certain groups or idols in Kpop culture that is stemmed from the fan clubs and how they would react if someone were to criticize their favorite artist/group(i mean just look at the comment section of AKP articles)...also there's the whole sunbae/hoobae and respect and politeness thing too. When some of these kpop artists finally get criticized by the netizens, they take it too harshly and do things that are drastic. just my opinion.
Asians need to have great English(accents dont have to be eliminated because that makes them unique), GREAT talent, bangin' looks(that are healthy and not overdone to the point of being a stick and that doesn't exclude husky and curvy talented artists either as long as they aren't....obese), and some iron armor because criticism in this country called America comes from all corners, not just netizens. Websites and boards actually review the album and criticize and don't always complement the "concept" or "growth" or whatever like theoretically said.
[ Edited: 22 October 2009 11:05 PM by stevewonder06]
people are just too stubborn to even listen to a song by an asian artist
if asian artists were successful, then artists such as se7en wouldn't have to come back to korea
people are just too stubborn to even listen to a song by an asian artist
if asian artists were successful, then artists such as se7en wouldn't have to come back to korea
I would agree to certain degrees about the race issue. Movies and tv have gotten better for Asians, if not entirely. Music still needs a LOT of work.
In Se7en's case it was also how his management treated it, I mean collaboration with Lil Kim=FAIL BIG TIME. What the hell was YG thinking?! For a company that specialize in hip-hop,rap, and r&b music they couldn't get an artist that was more relevant!? Has Se7en lately become YG's trial and error boy or something? His first acting role wasn't so hot and his US work went no where, at least Boa managed to released an album, even if it didn't do so hot. I really hope Se7en pick himself up, he is a talent that shouldn't be wasted.
I think no sponsor want to take risk to fail, in major debt or bankrupt if their promotion fails outside korea. Damn bloodsucker expensive to pay the stuffs, workers, publicity, media promotions, stadiums, dancers and all that shit.
Again, most westerners are damn racist and full of bigotry. Lucky if you find one who understand and accept things out of the box.
people are just too stubborn to even listen to a song by an asian artist
if asian artists were successful, then artists such as se7en wouldn't have to come back to korea
Or, you know, maybe the music they're just releasing is crap. I hated BoA's US album.
Asians are so butthurt and so quick to pull out the race card whenever someone doesn't make it in their media. There ARE famous Asian Americans, you know.
Sweet minty jesus I wish the term "Butthurt" would die. D:
Also, I just cannot forgive the Se7en collaboration with Lil Kim, who looked like a chopped and screwed version of catwoman the entire time. Such a horrible idea on every level, which is also the main reason why asian artists are having such a hard time crossing over; they seem to be relying on their home entertainment labels instead of getting the people who matter in the states and are actually propelling people to the top of the charts. BoA would have had more than an easy time being sold to Def Jam while Rihanna was on her "off" period; many people don't think Rihanna can sing anyway so they'd have no problem's with BoA's voice and since she can dance better than just about any active american artist, she'd have been completely marketable. Sure there's the problem of her sometimes strong accent but that could have been ironed out in the months that Rihanna (i.e DJ's main cash cow) was busy being paparazzi fodder. Her english album was basically a lyrically downgraded and vocoder-heavy version of Britney's last album; the average teenager who only listens to american music would probably love it but conformity is not the way for cross-over acts to find success, atleast not conformity on that level. It was like they threw every american cliche into one album and sent her out to the Pride Festival to promote.
Also, race is a small factor, but I wouldn't call it racism exactly, it's just that the demographic that feeds into mainstream music (which seems to be the category that defines success for some of these cross over artists) aren't used to immediately accepting new things. Nowhere in my recent memory have I heard of a song or artist that shot to the top of the charts because they were completely new and innovative, which is interesting because that's exactly what a cross-over act is going to have to be in order to get noticed. BoA's company messed her up with bringing more of the same; a record that would only get noticed by Britney Spears, and Utada's company did the same and littered her album with lyrical awkwardness.
In short, I think the main issues stopping artists from crossing over are:
*Conformity. They wouldn't get noticed if they don't bring something even relatively new; it may not be the best example, but WG's current "retro" style largely helped them because no one else was doing that.
*English. The accent has to go or be damn near gone, if not so much for the album itself than the interview and promotion that -must- follow.
*Management. Damn near ditch your home entertainment company and work with agencies that are making things happen or have the potential to in the states. No asian company should have had a hand in BoA's album and neither should "Sean Garrette"; the last time he had work that anyone even remotely heard of was in Raven Symone's music and most people don't realize she's already has 3 albums. This will also save the lyrical awkwardness that can only be accomplished when you translate lyrics that would work in korean or japanese into english; see "Girls on Top" english version. "YOU CAN'T JUDGE ME BY THE WAY THAT I LOOK ON THE EXTERIOR, NO". Sit the hell down.
*Promotion, like most of you said. Artists have to promote their own work a lot more now since a lot of people are fighting back against major labels i.e Kelly Clarkson, Jojo and Tiffany Evans. They're going to have to peddle their own stuff now and put in the same amount of work they did when they first debuted.
If they could just tackle those four issues, I think they'd really be set, but no one seems to have done that yet. D:
EDIT---
HOLY ESSAY, BATMAN. D;
[ Edited: 23 October 2009 10:11 AM by Craver199103]
^
Holy essay indeed, Craver. Why you writing so much.
As for promotion, I agree. SM did a terrible job. Let some American company handle it for you or at least piggyback on one for awhile.
chukachukachoo - Oct 22, 2009 10:13pm
theoretically - Oct 22, 2009 10:02pm
Yeah. Like I said, I also think Hyoyeon is pretty.
BUT if you went and showed pictures of Hyoyeon and CL to most people, do you honestly think the majority of them would think they were pretty, especially when compared to other members in their groups?
Probably not, but they'd still get attention for talent and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And I'd rather get by on what i can do than what i look like because looks can go away really fast. But that's just my opinion.
I can't think of any idol group that would get recognition for amazing talent. That's the thing, none of them are amazing. They aren't talented enough to the point that they'd still have fans without their looks. They HAVE to be good looking or they won't get much attention here.
It won't be like in Korea and with kpop fans. This will not happen:
OMG 2ne1 ARE SO AMAZING TALENTED THEY ARE THE BESTEST!!!111!!
or
SNSD ARE THE BEST SINGERS EVURR AND THEY'RE SO HARDWORKING AND TALENTED.
No.
[ Edited: 23 October 2009 11:11 AM by theoretically]
people are just too stubborn to even listen to a song by an asian artist
if asian artists were successful, then artists such as se7en wouldn't have to come back to korea
Or, you know, maybe the music they're just releasing is crap. I hated BoA's US album.
Asians are so butthurt and so quick to pull out the race card whenever someone doesn't make it in their media. There ARE famous Asian Americans, you know.
i would agree about some artists releasing horrible songs
and yes i know that there are famous asian americans
but i haven't really noticed any famous asian americans who've been in the spotlight lately
a current famous asian american i could think of now would be john cho
^
Is that the Twilight guy? He's got some recognition but he's hardly famous. Twilight is really his only claim to fame besides some Disney stuff and indie stuff.
^
Is that the Twilight guy? He's got some recognition but he's hardly famous. Twilight is really his only claim to fame besides some Disney stuff and indie stuff.
twilight is a scam just like disney
i'm not sure what guy from the twilight's name is
but i was talking about the actor from flashforward, star trek, and harold and kumar
^
Is that the Twilight guy? He's got some recognition but he's hardly famous. Twilight is really his only claim to fame besides some Disney stuff and indie stuff.
twilight is a scam just like disney
i'm not sure what guy from the twilight's name is
but i was talking about the actor from flashforward, star trek, and harold and kumar
OH.
Him.
I don't really remember him that much because I HATE sci fi and you see that other guy from Harold and Kumar a lot (he was in House).
Also, yeah, Twilight sucks. The fact that it's so praised is an embarrassment to literature. Anyway, Wikipedia tells me the guys name is Justin Chon. So... they're similar. Either way, he's pretty ugly and not that great an actor, so I don't really care.
^
Holy essay indeed, Craver. Why you writing so much.
As for promotion, I agree. SM did a terrible job. Let some American company handle it for you or at least piggyback on one for awhile.
chukachukachoo - Oct 22, 2009 10:13pm
theoretically - Oct 22, 2009 10:02pm
Yeah. Like I said, I also think Hyoyeon is pretty.
BUT if you went and showed pictures of Hyoyeon and CL to most people, do you honestly think the majority of them would think they were pretty, especially when compared to other members in their groups?
Probably not, but they'd still get attention for talent and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And I'd rather get by on what i can do than what i look like because looks can go away really fast. But that's just my opinion.
I can't think of any idol group that would get recognition for amazing talent. That's the thing, none of them are amazing. They aren't talented enough to the point that they'd still have fans without their looks. They HAVE to be good looking or they won't get much attention here.
It won't be like in Korea and with kpop fans. This will not happen:
OMG 2ne1 ARE SO AMAZING TALENTED THEY ARE THE BESTEST!!!111!!
or
SNSD ARE THE BEST SINGERS EVURR AND THEY'RE SO HARDWORKING AND TALENTED.
No.
They'll have to be interesting then. Look at the Wonder Girls. they are not so talented but they still are getting recognized but time will tell how far that recognition goes. And some female idol groups are more talented than others. They are not all very talented or extremely horrible. But i do think very few are really talented, so THEY could be recognized for vocals or dancing. Actually BoA is the only female artist i think can really dance and Bom is okay singing (personally, i don't really like the tone of her voice, i prefer Minji) but most people don't expect an Asian girl to sing like that anyways. Like Wheesung will probably get noticed for having such a powerful voice.
But the best female vocalists in Korea are Big Mama. They aren't an idol group though. But i love them. They are the only female group to get by on talent. They don't need to be pretty with voices like that but i do think the youngest member is pretty.
i hate it when people say "the best female vocalists in korea are big mama" and think they're so classy for either knowing of big mama or being able to put down every single other female in korea.
have you ever heard of the bubble sisters? no?
there are so many other talented female vocalists in korea... big mama is probably the most overrated underrated group.
i hate it when people say "the best female vocalists in korea are big mama" and think they're so classy for either knowing of big mama or being able to put down every single other female in korea.
have you ever heard of the bubble sisters? no?
there are so many other talented female vocalists in korea... big mama is probably the most overrated underrated group.
what's your problem?
and yeah i've heard the bubble sisters. they are racist and i don't like their voices anyways. so big mama is still the best female group. i don't think i am classy or better either, it's just my opinion.
i like Baek Ji young and Lee Soo Young too but that's all i can think of so i'd like to know who all these talented female artists are.
i hate it when people say "the best female vocalists in korea are big mama" and think they're so classy for either knowing of big mama or being able to put down every single other female in korea.
have you ever heard of the bubble sisters? no?
there are so many other talented female vocalists in korea... big mama is probably the most overrated underrated group.
I've never heard of the Bubble Sisters.
That name is enough to make me want to go listen to them, though.
Edit: I listened and I liked.
As for Big Mama, it's debatable as to whether they're even still together. Nothing since 2007 and not even their site has been updated with anything.
[ Edited: 23 October 2009 06:25 PM by theoretically]
actually vocally the bubble sisters are even with Big Mama. But the Bubble Sisters like to dress up in black face in pajamas and with rollers in their hair. So no, i don't like or think highly of them at all. They are just racist bigots like anyone else who thinks blackface is okay. It's disgusting so i have no respect for the Bubble Sisters at all. At least Big Mama presents themselves with class and elegance.
what does racial ignorance have to do with their talent? respect for their personalities is one thing, and respect for their talent is another. lol. if you wanted to hate "racist bigots", you'd probably have to hate over half of everyone living on the continent of asia right now.
@taylor: i heard they were coming out with a new album this year or next, but maybe it's just a rumour.
what does racial ignorance have to do with their talent? respect for their personalities is one thing, and respect for their talent is another. lol. if you wanted to hate "racist bigots", you'd probably have to hate over half of everyone living on the continent of asia right now.
@taylor: i heard they were coming out with a new album this year or next, but maybe it's just a rumour.
I already said their vocals were equal with big mama so i based it on their personality. and because i happen to be the ethnicity they thought it was okay to make fun of, i don't like them at all. I wouldn't call it racial "ignorance". It's just racist, plain and simple. Everyone should know blackface is wrong since at least the 1960's. Even other Korean people knew it was wrong, which is probably why they haven't really been noticed. How would you feel if someone thought it was okay to make fun of Asian people like they did in the early 1900s. You wouldn't like it so don't expect me to think anything of this racist group of women.
I usually don't base who i like musically on personality but i'll make an exception for blind racism in its most disgusting form. And if you think those get ups they wore shouldn't affect people's opinion of them, then i suggest you post the picture here and see what people think. They are vile and disgusting. You just don't know how much this pisses me off.
And since this thread is about breaking into the US market, Bubble Sisters deciding to dress up in blackface definitely excludes them from a chance because that's not okay in most of the world anyway.
So i still think Big Mama, Baek Ji young, and Lee Soo Young are the best vocalists in Korea.
